Curse

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

it
if your bro pvps a lot hes going to know what hes doing, even if hes in a low ranking guild. Pvpers are better at the game generally, almost every pvper ive met knows a lot more about all the skills and how they are used than a average pve'er.

Why does a discussion about heroes AI, have to turn into a PvPers vs PvEers argument?

Most PvEers pvp to some extend and vice versa for PvPers. I see experienced and inexperienced people on either side.

-Lotus- · Aug 24, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why does a discussion about heroes AI, have to turn into a PvPers vs PvEers argument?

theres not really an argument... anyone who plays semi-serious PvP is better at the game that the vast majority of PvE players. PvEers use Tanks still... why would there be an argument?

JDRyder · Aug 24, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Most PvEers pvp to some extend and vice versa for PvPers. I see experienced and inexperienced people on either side.

and? how does that make pvers better than pvpers?

People that mainly play pvp ARE better than people that mainly pve cause pvpers have to know more about the game to be good and pvp is way harder to do than pve so most of the better players are going to be doing that, I don't see how thats a hard thing to agree with

the point of me saying that in the 1st place was to tell him "your bro PvPs he most likely knows what hes doing don't worry when you seem him use skills like that its for a reason, hes just using the skills of guild wars to their fullest"

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

and? how does that make pvers better than pvpers?

People that mainly play pvp ARE better than people that mainly pve cause pvpers have to know more about the game to be good and pvp is way harder to do than pve so most of the better players are going to be doing that, I don't see how thats a hard thing to agree with

the point of me saying that in the 1st place was to tell him "your bro PvPs he most likely knows what hes doing don't worry when you seem him use skills like that its for a reason, hes just using the skills of guild wars to their fullest"

I have seen some really crappy builds in RA, HA, and even GvG. Please dont tell me they are still better than most PvEers here.

Dont even try to convince me that firestorm warrior and his team that we destroyed in GvG is better than half the PvEers here. Just because someone clicks a single button to enter RA doesn't imply he automatically becomes an elite. There are experienced and inexperienced players on either side.

JDRyder · Aug 24, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Most PvEers pvp to some extend and vice versa for PvPers. I see experienced and inexperienced people on either side.

yea cuz pvers do RA and some times HA to try it or to get a deer

just cause they are pvping does not make them pvpers,

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

cuz RA is nothing but crappy builds same for HA, or they were mainly pvers trying to pvp, cant say i have not seen a lot of pvers try to HA and im like wtf why.

My point being that some people claim that they are PvPers, and even PvP quite regularly, even has a stag coming out of their chest, but they are just horrible.

So unless you belong to a top guild or have something to show for, just claiming I am a PvPer, that means I am better, is ridiculous. To enter PvP consistently is EASY, to win consistently in PvP is not.

JDRyder · Aug 24, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Pvpers are better at the game generally, almost every pvper ive met knows a lot more about all the skills and how they are used than a average pve'er.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

People that mainly play pvp ARE better than people that mainly pve cause pvpers have to know more about the game to be good and pvp is way harder to do than pve so most of the better players are going to be doing that,

l2read imo... its the same shit i said to start with your just trying to troll stfu

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

if your bro pvps a lot hes going to know what hes doing, even if hes in a low ranking guild. Pvpers are better at the game generally, almost every pvper ive met knows a lot more about all the skills and how they are used than a average pve'er.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

just cause they are pvping does not make them pvpers,

stop contradicting yourself then.

JDRyder · Aug 24, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

if hes using power drain on a heros monk I think it safe to say hes passed the average pver player tiers

-Lotus- · Aug 24, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

if hes using power drain on a heros monk I think it safe to say hes passed the average pver player tiers

IF his monks have energy management and an elite he passed the average PvE player miles ago.

N1ghtstalker · Aug 24, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

consider using [leech signet] as well
even tho i keep GoLe on my monks

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

if hes using power drain on a heros monk I think it safe to say hes passed the average pver player tiers

I used to have power drain on my monk heroes a long time ago when NF was first released. After getting heroes, people were amazed at how efficient heroes are for interrupting and put interrupts in all kinds of heroes, even on MMs (i.e. the old Zingeri's hero build). Having interrupts on monk heroes is old school.

I took it out later when I realized monk heroes were sometimes busy attacking while getting pounded by melee. Afterall, I can always put the interrupts on attacking heroes rather than healers if I need them. There are other means of energy management for monks, besides power drain.

zwei2stein · Aug 24, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I used to have power drain on my monk heroes a long time ago when NF was first released. After getting heroes, people were amazed at how efficient heroes are for interrupting and put interrupts in all kinds of heroes, even on MMs (i.e. the old Zingeri's hero build). Having interrupts on monk heroes is old school.

Also SF eles.

It was part of genral PvE singlemindedness: people tended to play very focused builds. And those builds usually really needed about only one half of skillbar (they are only so much red bars go up skills you can put on hero monk.)

Interupts were free with 12/12/3 point spread and didn't cost hero much time either. No brainer.

It just takes aditional leap of faith to reduce your attributes to 11/10 or 12/9 and find two skills from other attributes to fill those empty places on skillbar: Hybrid monk or Sabway necro.

---

I am actually surprised on your testimonies: Do you heroes really suck with defend mode? I usually play HM with hench monks, which are in defend mode and besides crappy skills they have i never noticed behaviours you describe.

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I am actually surprised on your testimonies: Do you heroes really suck with defend mode? I usually play HM with hench monks, which are in defend mode and besides crappy skills they have i never noticed behaviours you describe.

I think Mhenlo has the same "guard" mode AI, he wands. Seeing his ability to kite would be a reflection of how guard mode monk heroes kite. If he is in the middle of wanding with full life, he does tank that hit.

It is not game breaking but annoying when he could have just kite earlier if he "sees" the warriors coming for him.

Perfected Shadow · Aug 25, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Pdrain, etc. Don't see why not. Downside is wanding but the wand hit might take a RoF

Nainoa · Aug 25, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Let's see these much better alternatives for hero monk energy management people have mentioned. Glyph is not the answer since heroes use it with random skills including 5 energy ones which could save them as little as 10 energy in a 60 second period.

DarkSpirit · Aug 25, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Interupts were free with 12/12/3 point spread and didn't cost hero much time either. No brainer.

That is the problem. If you only have 3 to inspiration, PDrain returns 7 energy so you only have a net of 2e return and that is provided it manages to interrupt. With a 20s recharge, PDrain is more of an interrupt with some energy bonus, rather than a reliable energy management skill.

Even GoLE can return a net 15e, with 0 attribute investment, less conditional since he doesn't need to find a spell to interrupt, and you can set your monk hero to avoid combat so he kites better.

upier · Aug 25, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Unless they fixed the AI - I don't see why anyone would be using mesmer interrupts as e-management.
The AI considers PD as an interrupt rather then a way to manage energy.
That's why GoLE is superior.
It's simple.
Heroes understand it.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 25, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Honestly, I'd rather run [skill]Channeling[/skill] as a form of energy management in PvE on a monk with the inspiration line. I run mostly casters, Paragons, and W/P myself, so there always seems to be energy rolling in.

Turbobusa · Aug 25, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I'd rather have my backline... in the backline if you don't mind.
Channeling promotes awefull positionning.
See monks spamming RoFs on an altar in 3 searing heats. (PvP is gud, always)

I have no problems with Pdrain on a monk set on guard. It does work and I would consider the wanding "problem" as an annoyance at most. It's not like it is going to put you in trouble 50% of the time. More like THAT ONE TIME, you party wiped because your healer was busy watching flowers.